Blue skies are ahead of Mazda

"El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!" (lightningzone)
07/17/2014 at 11:45 • Filed to: None

No matter what decisions the company will take in the future. If it remains independent or not, if it goes RWD or not, if it goes electric or not, Mazda's cleverness and rebellious spirit will set it apart from the competition.

DISCUSSION (21)

Jedidiah > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
07/17/2014 at 11:49

Rebellious spirit? I don't see that in any car company; let alone Mazda. It's a fairly cautious industry as a whole.

Mosqvich > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
07/17/2014 at 11:49

I thought I liked the new Mazda3, but the more I see them, the less I like them. It seems like they are trying to copy Hyundai or something. I've had several Mazdas and loved them. I don't have your positive outlook for the brand.

mcseanerson > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
07/17/2014 at 12:10

I worry that they might fade away as only gearheads seem to really appreciate what they're doing. Everyone else is throwing hybrids and diesels and all kinds of other tricks at cars to get more mpg when Mazda is just lightening them and making the engines more efficient and not sacrificing fun for economy.

Party-vi > Jedidiah
07/17/2014 at 12:27

Mazda offers radar cruise control on the 3. What other car company offers that on a $25k car?

Jedidiah > Party-vi
07/17/2014 at 12:30

Who wants radar cruise control on a 25k car? I'm sure it is not standard and is probably an unneccessary and expensive option that jacks up the price of the 25k car.

Just because a company decides it might be a good idea to sell a ridiculous option on their cars in a hasty board meeting doesn't mean it has a "rebellious spirit."

Rico > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
07/17/2014 at 12:32

Has anyone asked Mazda if they are going to build a Speed version of any of their cars or are the Skyactive engines just not upto par?

Party-vi > Jedidiah
07/17/2014 at 12:44

I think you missed my point. Because Mazda offers luxury-car options on an economy car it makes them rebellious.

Jedidiah > Party-vi
07/17/2014 at 12:59

They do because people will buy it if they do. It's an agressive marketing / product design strategy.

Pushing "luxury" options onto a cheap car is hardly sticking the middle finger up to the industry.

First and foremost; Mazda is a company, they are interested in money—not serving the whims of enthusiasts.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Jedidiah
07/17/2014 at 13:08

They offer a manual transmission in a small SUV. They're not normal.

Jedidiah > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
07/17/2014 at 13:11

Not normal in today's market, but small SUVs with manuals aren't exactly a new idea.

A Good Options List =/= Rebellion

They are a company—their goal is profitability. If they can offer potential customers somthing that other companies don't, it is potentially profitable. Their goal is not to serve us enthusiasts, but to sell shit to us enthusiants and non-enthusiasts.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Jedidiah
07/17/2014 at 13:28

I completely agree that their goal is profitability, but they also have made it a goal (or commitment) to make cars that are involving and, therefore, attractive to enthusiasts.

They know they're the little guys, up against the giants of Toyota, Honda, etc. and have carved out this little niche of selling to people who actually enjoy driving. This might not get you the biggest sales numbers, but you will garner a loyal following. What other makers talk about things as esotheric as "jimba attai" in their marketing, or childish words like "zoom-zoom". The Spec Miata program is another example. They're trying to make money, but they are different than your average automaker.

"The "challenger" spirit that has made us the world leader in rotary engines is still alive and well at Mazda. Retaining this "challenger" spirit, the entire Mazda group will work as one in the areas of product, quality, sales and service, to create a special bond with our customers and become a "premium" brand in their hearts and minds. We will also continue our efforts to meet our constantly changing responsibilities to society and be worthy the trust our stakeholders place in us.

I greatly appreciate your continuing encouragement and support for us. "

Masamichi Kogai

"At Mazda, we believe because if it's not worth driving, it's not worth building."

Party-vi > Jedidiah
07/17/2014 at 13:37

"Who want radar cruise control on the 3?"

"They do because people will buy it if they do."

Did you just have a conversation with yourself that answered your own question?

Jedidiah > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
07/17/2014 at 13:53

I'd like to believe that, but it seems like a carefully crafted statement designed boost Mazda PR. After all, he said point blank that he wants to be a "'premium' brand in [our] hearts and minds."

The only enthusiast car they offer currently is the Miata; everything is kind of an industry standard for the line-up. Even the Miata is a copy and paste design of cars from a previous time. They can use a really good cookie cutter if they want to, but it is still a cookie-cutter.

An SUV, a minivan, FWD mid-size and compact sedans, a truck, and a roadster sounds pretty predictable to me. Each one of those is made with a traditional manufacturing process and traditional technology. Whether they are made a bit better than the competition is up to manufacturing tolerances, which can vary due to environmental conditions or workforce attitude, etc.

The options list is what sells cars ever since ideas about consumerism have rooted themselves into the market since the World Wars. The car's options only arbitrarily affect the function of the car, but it is what the average customer views as what differentiates cars from one another.

I'm not disputing that they know their niche; they have to realize their position against competitors if they want to be successful. But the Mazda 3 or 6 are hardly niche-market cars, they are the brand's volume sellers.

Each car company has to take a different approach in order to sell cars and it shows in their options list. For example, BMW and Porsche charge exorbant prices for simple options because they know that they are defacto standards in the luxury industry. Cadillac is cheaper than BMW because they are trying to steal sales from them. Toyota offers little options because they know that are the standard mass-market brand, while Mazda offers more options than Toyota because they are trying to steal sales from them.

The car industry is a very cautious one that relies heavily on marketing to mask conserative ideas and products as new things. The cannot retool heavily every year or it will bankrupt them. The car industry is a waiting/watching game; smart companies will respond to other companies carefully and understand their role in the market. Mazda is hardly different than the other companies, they are merely doing what is neccessary to sell cars.

Jedidiah > Party-vi
07/17/2014 at 13:54

A little bit.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Jedidiah
07/17/2014 at 14:08

I'd argue all of their cars are the car for the enthusiast in each segment. Read any review or comparison of any Mazda for the last several years, and you'll find that they're the ones that the reviewer would choose if the decision was based on driving dynamics alone. They put a premium on suspension and handling. I'm guessing a Mazda's suspension is stiffer than all the comparable vehicles in their class. 80% of buyers are probably looking for a portable couch, like Toyota makes. Mazda seems to be building for the 10% that actually like to drive.

"If one were to put our focused craftsmanship simply into words, one might say our cars have all evolved from performance, or sporty, cars. In other words, we definitively create cars with high performance, endurance, control, and as a result of which the driver always experiences a sense of solidity in our cars."

From a recent interview with Kogai:

http://en.responsejp.com/article/2013/0…

Jedidiah > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
07/17/2014 at 14:25

Reviews aren't always reliable sources of information, especially if they get pre-production models. If you want to know what a car is like, drive it yourself.

I've ridden around in plenty of newer beige from Toyota and Hyundai and it doesn't seem much different than the stuff from friend's manual Mazda 3 Hatch. They all have fairly hard seats and are a tad overdampened. I cannot recall if the Mazda was stiffer or not. I think they all had long stroke 4 cylinders with pretty forgetable powerbands.

As an enthusiast, I don't think I'd spend my money on a FWD unibody sedan with Macpherson struts and then pretend it was a good driver's car. It just isn't anything close to a performance car no matter what way you look at it. That technology is used because it is easy to mass produce; not because it is "sporty." If you want a car that is built like this, then use it for what it is for—disposable transportation and don't pretend it is something else. If you want a performance car, then get a really cheap mass market car to use during the week and then get a decent Miata or something for the weekends.

There is a point when comfort/cheapness takes a priority over performance and that is for commuting. If you are going to pick a mass-production vehicle with technology designed solely for ease of production, then I'd personally pick the low cost one with the most comfortable seats and a manual if you are not stuck in heavy traffic often.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Jedidiah
07/17/2014 at 14:43

I had an '05 Mazda hatch for 7 years and 90k miles and loved every minute flogging that car around. I took it on a couple driving trips to NW Arkansas and even to a track day. It was a very light, very chuckable little car, and was only lacking on power. It was clear that they'd spent the time and money building it where it mattered: suspension, brakes and handling. We also have an '08 CX-9 with 140k, and I'd be willing to bet it handles better than anything else of comparable price in its class.

When I went to buy something different, I decided I wanted more power and RWD or AWD. Mazda didn't really have anything in their range for me. I ended buying one of my dream cars, an E90 M3. I love my car, and might just end up keeping this one for the duration, but I'm still a fan of Mazda and feel like they're one of the few automakers that give a damn about us enthusiasts. There are plenty of people with families out there for whom a pure sports car is not a practical choice, and Mazda gives them cars they can enjoy driving while still filling all the needs they have in an automobile.

I'm looking forward to seeing what they've managed to do with the new Miata, eagerly awaiting the reviews of the next Mazdaspeed 3 (and I hope they don't stop there), and hoping that the next RX-7/MX-7/RX-9 is brought to market soon.

Jedidiah > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
07/17/2014 at 15:07

Chuckable car =/= driver's car

I'm not saying that you cannot have fun in mass-market car. I'm being honest when I said I couldn't tell a difference between my friend's Mazda and its competitor.

If you threw some other car than the Mazda around a track, then you'd still probably have fun. Driving a car hard is pretty fun regardless of what you're in. Even boring cars can be fun; the brand doesn't really matter.

I can't imagine Mazda spending any more time or money on R&D on suspension than any other company. It is still made with components with inherently poor geometry and handling characteristics.

They might try and mask this by adding bigger roll bars or stiffer shocks, but it won't be very different from any other mass-market car on a technological standpoint.

I can't see that Mazda is making any special effort beyond establishing a marketing niche on which they can offer their cars as an alternative.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Jedidiah
07/17/2014 at 15:15

All I know is that my Mazda was a dynamic little car, and if you've read any professional reviews in the last 10 years, the vast majority of them agree that it's the driver's car of the bunch.

Jedidiah > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
07/17/2014 at 15:17

It's not hard to feel like a driver's car when it's competition is so damn boring.

If I was in the market for a generic sedan or hatch, I'd probably get a Mazda.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Jedidiah
07/17/2014 at 16:21

I sold my car to a friend. I need to get him to let me drive it again, after these two years, to see if it's as good as I remember it.